From: owner-rawlife-digest@rawtimes.com (rawlife-digest) To: rawlife-digest@rawtimes.com Subject: rawlife-digest V1 #926 Reply-To: rawlife@rawtimes.com Sender: owner-rawlife-digest@rawtimes.com Errors-To: owner-rawlife-digest@rawtimes.com Precedence: bulk rawlife-digest Monday, March 18 2002 Volume 01 : Number 926 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 17:19:40 -0500 From: Bob Avery Subject: Re: [rawlife] How to gain all the healthy weight that you want togain Jo, >I'm 42 and I'd like to regain the strength levels I enjoyed when I >was 19, not to mention the peak body weight of 64Kg. I'm now 60Kg on >a rainy day. ;) But that's heck of a lot better than the 53 during >the worst period of my raw vegan days. Isn't % body fat more relevant than weight? I could easily weigh a lot more than I do, but it would all be excess fat. Why bother? Bob Avery ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 17:52:54 -0500 From: Bob Avery Subject: Re: [rawlife] support your local author jr, >there are just a few positions that have to be performed perfectly >and people have to use these positions to express themselves Ever watch Cirque du Soleil dance/acrobatics troop? You'll discover positions you never knew existed. Totally amazing and fascinating. I hardly watch TV, but if a housemate has them on when I walk past the living room, I'm transfixed. >so as far as i can get >is that i want to describe a fiction story >in the fashion of a combination of modes >that takes into account the world as i see it >by relating a fantasy that makes it obvious Do a humor book. You're good at it. Read raw fooder comic Dick Gregory for inspiration. Bob Avery ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 17:54:21 -0500 From: "Govinda McGeary" Subject: Re: [rawlife] support your local author Dear Jr Ellis webmaster, Regarding the following: - ---------------------------------- I personally think your website is dum and not informative. You need to be more specific and don't use bullets write in paragraphs. Make it look like a report and you are positive about some of the guidelines for dining in a restaurant. Jamie Chesapeake, VA USA - Sunday, March 17, 2002 at 14:49:51 (EST) - ------------------------------------------------------ He really did'nt offer his criticism with much elegance, however he at least had respect enough for the reader to use puncuation marks and a capital letter or two. Brotherly,Govinda _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:23:18 -0500 From: don@health101.org Subject: [rawlife] exercise, diets, water, fasting EXERCISE TO GAIN MUSCLE MASS > Doing as much anaerobic exercise as you can, as frequently as you can, is the > secret to gain all the healthy, muscular weight that you want to gain. To > gain weight, do as little aerobic exercises as you can. I wouldn't say, "...as frequently as you can...". Here's why: To gain muscle mass, you must give your body a "good reason". It will not build "new" if it doesn't have a good reason to do so, just as it will not keep what it's got if it isn't constantly being given a good reason to. If you can do ten pushups, and on your exercise day you do your ten pushups, what message did you send your body? "I wanted to do ten, I was able to do ten, no reason to build more." If, however you set as your goal, 1,500 pushups, and did as many as you could (ten and a half, eleven, whatever), what message did you send your body? "I needed to do more than you were able to do... build more please." That's the message you need to send if you are under-muscled (and most people are) and want to be adequately muscled. To do this, you must cross a threshold when working out. This threshold is crossed by working the muscle to MMF (Momentary Muscular Failure), and to do this, you must work very intensely. And if you are working your muscles to a high intensity, you need more recovery time (for replenishment, repair, etc). So in general, the more intense the exercise, the longer you need to wait in between workouts. And what I've found is that people either work out WAY TOO LITTLE, OR WAY TO MUCH. Please see the article at http://health101.org/exercise.htm to find out why working out, intensely, only needs to done about once a week... any more than that wastes bodily resources and interferes with recovery. There you'll also discover the fallacy of doing a "cardio workout" and "aerobic exercise". Please read the article first before engaging me in debate; the article will answer many of the questions I normally get. WHY MOST DIETS DON'T WORK Please read the article at http://health101.org/art_most_diets.htm to discover why most diets fail, and why an uncooked food diet works to get you to, and keeps you at, your natural weight. And the article contains a link to a great recipe book too. WATER > I take it you disagree with the macrobiotics folks > who say a woman should urinate 2x/day > and a man 3x. I disagree with many things the macrobiotic folks say, including that little nugget. FASTING >> When I first did intentional fasts, hunger did not return. > Why did you start eating again? I had to go back to work, and needed the fuel. However with unintentional fasts (while dealing with a viral cleansing), hunger did return after the cleanup was complete. Don - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:15:46 -0500 From: JR Ellis Subject: Re: [rawlife] How to gain... At 05:19 PM 3/17/2002 -0500, Bob wrote: >Isn't % body fat more relevant than weight? I could easily weigh a lot >more than I do, but it would all be excess fat. Why bother? my dearest bob and unfortunate innocent bystanders i am not sure if you are asking me this question or not actually i am pretty sure you are not but lucky for you, i have an answer first of all excess fat is given a bad rap i mean its hard to find someone defending fat people oh sure once in a while some ugly fat actress on tv on 'the practice' wins an award and is praised for success in spite of her disability not that theres anything wrong with her but usually, no one wants to be fat people think that fat people are unhappy because they are fat which may be true but everyone overlooks the benefits of being morbidly obese well as one in a position to know you would all be surprised at how great it can be in fact just last week i bought clothes at the big and tall shop you would not believe how much i had to shorten them but i digress being against fat is like being against money fat is just the exchangeable commodity of body energy like money is the exchange commodity of society we will avoid all contempt for the federal reserve at this point when you have a lot of money you have to worry about protecting it and keeping it and so does fat pose ownership challenges but now that i am fasting i realize that i have a reserve of nutrients that can last me for eons to come when you have lots of money you can retire and not work when you have lots of fat, you can retire and not eat with just a few enzymes pills, and small quantities of supplements i can exist without eating for a really long time as i walk down the street, i feel sorry for all the little people who have to go home and eat the hungry, the famished, the needy i am sufficient i am self contained i am complete when i run out of fat and have to start eating again i fear my vacation will be over but luckily, that is not going to be anytime soon i am foot loose and fancy free especially foot loose since i can't fit into a shoe anymore and have to wear sandals which looks odd in the winter but at least i don't get cold i feel great and feel better each day (only five so far) cause i don't have to spend time on the petty human maintenance details like eating so you can brag all you want about how you don't have any excess fat i say you can't have too much fat when i run out, i will just have to get more but until then i am a very very very rich man in other ways than money the chunk betaman - ---------------------- At 05:52 PM 3/17/2002 -0500, Bob wrote: >Do a humor book. You're good at it. >Read raw fooder comic Dick Gregory for inspiration. thanks for the encouragement i am impressed that you quoted the part my email that i considered the heart of it - ---------------------- At 05:54 PM 3/17/2002 -0500, Govinda wrote: >He really did'nt offer his criticism with much elegance, >however he at least had respect enough for the reader >to use puncuation marks and a capital letter or two. ru complaining? i did'nt mean to offend - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:07:14 -0500 From: "Govinda McGeary" Subject: Re: [rawlife] Re:for Bob Avery/Marks request!/and Bobs Dear Bob I understand your point about "Medicine" I was merely mentioning that people laud Garlic and onions so much today! if emeril lagasse puts 18 cloves of garlic in a dish the whole audience erupts with wild applause.I'm aware the ideology that "medicine" doesnt comport with some modes of thinking. The Vedic vegetarian doesn't eat onions and garlic ,it has been a long standing tradition for millenia.Garlic has been said to increase the libido. So maybe that's why some monks abstain! I personally found that it made me feel psychically heavier when I took garlic and onion.The onion oils are not very well digested and you can easily smell it coming out of peoples pores who take garlic& onion regularly..not to mention garlic and onions irritate the stomach and cause heartburn. No we weren't raw foodists then. Much too much difficulty. We had a begging bowl and two uniforms and two turbans!It was tough but it was the best time of my life. I came back after 6 years in northern India, because I realized it wasn't my path. I now am very active with Ananda Marga ( anandamarga.org) They have only a few who are raw food people. And to answer you r question about fasting When I fast 4 days every month now, I don't rest at all. It has become part of my nature. Even if it is blistering hot, I carry out my daily duties.It was however,difficult in the beginning ,not unlike any new discipline. As for the Indian Rope trick Yogi, noticing me due to my dress.. no ..we all( 6) looked the same. And besides, he looked at all of us as a group and gave us a cursory glance. Thanks for your questions..now I'm going to listen to all your erudite and wise communications so I can be and become. In brotherhood,Govinda Ps What is your opinion Bob about the Beyondveg.com site? Or any of you, please... I'd like to hear your honest opinions. There was a fellow with the first name of Tom who wrote alot about his dietary journey. I'd like to hear anyone else's opinions about what he has written. Thanks Govinda _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:16:09 -0500 From: "Govinda McGeary" Subject: [rawlife] Jr ellis. Govinda's comment about the critical browser! At 05:54 PM 3/17/2002 -0500, Govinda wrote: >He really didn't offer his criticism with much elegance, however, he at >least had respect enough for the reader, to use puncuation marks and a >capital letter or two. Jrellis says.. ru complaining? i did'nt mean to offend Oh no!! I enjoyed your poetic,funny,description about Fat especially. I was merely pointing out above, that the browser/complainer could do something. Except he couldn't spell DUMB! Keep up the wonderful stuff I like it brother. Govinda ..... _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1904 01:39:58 +0000 From: forest Subject: [rawlife] jr., what to do with money? JR Ellis wrote: > note from me, jrellis, follows hey jr. based on your note about how stupid we all are and what to do with inherited money i couldn't resist adding me "two cents" worth of advice which i suspect you may anticipate....anyway, for years i have felt the best investment of money is to buy a homestead to live naturally on....and if you really wanna be "rich" and there is still some left over money it could be invested in scouring the world for a consensus family of our peers to cooperate and share the experience with....these types of investments go beyond money at some point if taken seriously, and offer real "social security" so one does not ever need to retire or have a 401k, just enjoy land and family and live responsibly with nature....pretty simple huh? pretty healthy too.....pretty loving and fun too....pretty logical and intuitive too....for those too afraid or unskilled to do it alone, i offer me limited knowledge and wisdom and support at website below.....aloha, - -- forest forest@talk-story.net http://www.lavazone2.com/forest - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1904 01:43:17 +0000 From: forest Subject: Re: [rawlife] How to gain all the healthy weight that you want togain Hal R. Haley wrote: > I have nothing against working out with weights, but find myself short on time. > I'm afraid if I had to emulate Dr. Bernarr with a two hour session every day I'd > miss some important things in my life. interesting all this talk of working out with weights and not enough time etc....i have found that living a simple natural life in the country growing food and maintaining a homestead provides all the variety of exercise to maintain a healthy strong body....how unfortunate that most teachers and doctors of natural hygiene do not live very natural lives and instead burn up food and calories on useless things like weightlifting and jogging etc....it is truly not sustainable natuarally to live like that and our deteriorating environment is trying to tell us..... there is an upper class that has high paying jobs so the lower blue colar or third worlders class can be paid to do their "dirty work" so they can go to the gym to work out or whatever.... when in truth the "dirty work" is the most healthy karmically and naturally....if we live more simply and responsibly and self reliantly and stop exploiting each other for energy and money in co-dependant hiearchical societies we will live more healthy it seems to me.....this week i have been cutting and peeling logs for future building projects (very heavy weight lifting) , cutting mulch and weeds in the garden, picking and planting fruits and veges, making baskets, etc. all these types of chores exercise many and various parts of the body and sustain life naturally at the same time....aloha, - -- forest forest@talk-story.net http://www.lavazone2.com/forest - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 21:50:23 -0500 From: Bob Avery Subject: Re: [rawlife] Re:for Bob Avery/Marks request!/and Bobs Govinda, >Garlic has been said to increase the libido. Interesting, because a lot of things that increase the libido are toxic. >It was however,difficult in the beginning ,not unlike any new discipline. It would be difficult for me too. In trying to cut down on food years ago, I started by eliminating all snacks and just having fruit for breakfast. Then I substituted juice for breakfast. Then I eliminated breakfast altogether. Then I started working on the lunch meal and worked it down to juice only for lunch. Then I eliminated lunch. For a year and a half, I ate only one meal/day, no snacks. I would usually start eating around 3-4 pm for my one meal. But I tried to push it farther. On 2 separate occasions, I tried to eat just one meal every other day, but I only lasted a week each time before my body made me stop. Maybe if I had tried a juice meal every other day in a transition phase, I could have worked into it gradually. Eventually, I even gave up on the 1 meal/day routine because the meal gradually became so big it was taking me 3 hours to eat it. I now feel more comfortable splitting the same amount of food up into 2 meals a day most of the time and giving up on the daily 21-hr fast. I have taken 2 fast days in the past 6 months, but both times I just shut down completely and stayed in bed the whole day, sleeping as much as possible. Very rejuvenating and a lot easier for me to do than if I were up and about. >..now I'm going to listen >to all your erudite and wise communications so I can be and become. LOL! We all have things to teach and to learn. I've found your stories very thought-provoking, particularly the Indian rope trick. >What is your opinion Bob about the Beyondveg.com >site? Or any of you, please... I find much of the writing over there too polemical, opinionated, and slanted and therefore hard to take for my taste, so I haven't read much of it for quite some time. As to their central message, are we at base animal eaters? I don't know, but it certainly seems we have the option not to eat them, unlike obligate carnivores. There have been many long-lived vegans and/or vegetarians as well as long-lived flesh-eaters. Their other platform plank, that we are adapted in some way to eating cooked food because we've been doing it for so long just seems like wishful thinking to me. Our genes are capable of working many miracles, but cooking introduces randomization into the molecular structure of food. It breaks food down and recombines the molecules in unpredictable ways. I don't see how any change of genetic structure can cope with something like that. Any mechanism of evolution that I'm aware of requires that a new stressor force be *consistently* present in the environment, not some sort of random influence, in order for adaptation to occur. The chemistry of cooked food is so complex that even modern nutritional chemists with all their fancy equipment can't tell you what the chemical breakdown of a typical cooked meal is, and there really is no such thing as "typical." Every time you cook, it turns out different. Many times their are unintended consequences. Food stays on the fire too long and burns. My housemates do that often enough. They eat the results anyway unless it is really overdone. The fact that cooked food eaters always have body odor is enough of a proof to me that cooking isn't natural. You also see the same thing in human pets. Their cooked dog and cat chows create terrible body odors in the pets. If there are other planks in the beyondveg manifesto, you'll have to inform me. I admit I don't like their overall "you-can't-get-there-from-here" tone of writing. It's painful to read, so I don't. >There was a fellow with the first name of Tom who wrote alot about his dietary >journey. I'd like to hear anyone else's opinions about what he has written. One factor that is of great concern these days is how depleted our soils have become, and hence how poor the quality of the produce grown on them is. One thing you can say about eating animals is that their flesh is very nutrient dense. To be a successful vegan long term might require learning to grow your own food (something I recommend everyone take a stab at), do a lot of vegetable juicing, or at least buy the highest quality produce you can find. Tom was trying to make it on very "thin soup," and so he predictably failed. He is not willing to admit that poor quality produce was his problem though, even though that's what he was eating. And I suppose it might be that there is enough genetic variation in our make-up that some people really do need a certain amount of animal foods while others don't. I don't pretend to know. Dr. Klaper, a hygienic doctor who has studied vegans and raw fooders in his practice, says that those who are vegan from the time of weaning seem to do much better on a vegan diet than those who come to it later on as adults. Perhaps certain digestive and body building skills that are present in childhood atrophy if the chemicals that they produce are readily available in a flesh-based diet. Those who are vegan from the time of weaning would not lose those capabilities because they would be in use constantly. jr, >my dearest bob > and unfortunate innocent bystanders > >i am not sure if you are asking me this question or not >actually i am pretty sure you are not >but lucky for you, i have an answer You're in big trouble! >i am impressed that you quoted the part my email >that i considered the heart of it Well, OK, I guess that makes up for it. Bob Avery ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 23:40:53 -0500 From: "Govinda McGeary" Subject: [rawlife] Bob Avery I enjoyed your objective thinking about the beyondveg.com site. I too like Tom, was a fruitarian for a short while back then. Dick Gregory influenced my thinking at the time, as well as a fascinating Naturopath . A Doctor Marstellar from Sellersville,Pa. I did enjoy Tom's description in the beyondveg site of how pure he became as a fruitarian; that when people got off the subway he was nauseated by their body odor. Even women, who he was attracted to,were aeventually shunned by Tom. When people would cook with garlic it was like being teargased...he wrote! I agree with you, that none of us has all the answers. I have always been a believer in Pre-destination. It's not a very encouraging philosophy to preach, but I believe free will is very limited. Some people could no more be a vegetarian than we could eat raw road kill. Isaac Singer once cleverly said "We have to believe in free will, we have no choice!"I often wonder if their is a vegetarian gene. I discovered the last year that my great grandmother was a Seventh Day Adventist in Berkley and was an avid raw foodist.She died at 86 during an elective surgical procedure. Looked like I was the only descendant who inherited her trait..assuming that the raw veg gene exists. But the Seventh Day Adventist Church inherited all 16 of her houses in Berkley...Alas! Here's another quote of Leonardo DaVinci ....." From an early age I've abjured the use of meat..The day will surely come, when men will look on the murder of animals, as they now look on the murder of men". Brotherly,Govinda _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 21:59:32 -0800 From: "Hal R. Haley" Subject: Re: [rawlife] How to gain all the healthy weight that you want togain Forest, > how unfortunate that most teachers and doctors of natural hygiene do not live very > natural lives and instead burn up food and calories on useless things like > weightlifting and jogging etc... I must agree with you on principal here! How must people from other parts not so affluent, think of us, running and running and bicycling and stretching and swimming; all to no accomplishment save our own feelings? When by all accounts their days are filled to the last minute with productive ministrations; "what are you running from?", they might ask. On practical accounts I disagree, since it really feels good to get some strenuous exercise, and be pumped; it's a power thing, I think. > it is truly not sustainable natuarally to live like that Ah, but it IS in our current state of technology. We've increased our standard of living through that technology and specialization and division of labor to such a level that necessity is no longer convention; spare time, some call it. We CAN live naturally and still have the means to enjoy the nourishments of the fruits of technology > and our deteriorating environment is trying to tell us..... there is an upper class > that has high paying jobs so the lower blue collar or third worlders class can be paid > to do their "dirty work" so they can go to the gym to work out or whatever.... Bollocks and balderdash. Fallacy that one "class" does the dirty work of another. I've scrubbed toilets and mopped floors, AND managed scores of workers and owned my own business; never did I feel I was expending my thoughts and energy for the benefit of anyone other than myself. > when in truth the "dirty work" is the most healthy karmically and naturally.... It sure seems to be less stressful, in my experience. > if we live more simply and responsibly and self reliantly and stop exploiting each > other for energy and money Energy is INFINITE, and money is only a medium of exchange; problems arise ONLY when coercion is introduced into the equation. > this week i have been cutting and peeling logs for future building projects (very > heavy weight lifting) , cutting mulch and > weeds in the garden, picking and planting fruits and veges, making baskets, etc. all > these types of chores exercise many and various parts of the body and sustain life. You must enjoy these endeavors, or be using them for the physical exercise they provide, because if you didn't, you could surely trade your time and expertise at something you TRULY enjoyed for another's vastly more efficient production at these tasks. Hal - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:03:03 -0800 From: "Hal R. Haley" Subject: Re: [rawlife] Bob Avery Govinda, > Here's another quote of Leonardo DaVinci ....." From an early age I've abjured > the use of meat..The day will surely come, when men will look on the murder of > animals, as they now look on the murder of men". I held DaVinci in reverence before; the level of my estimation is now raised. Thanks, Hal - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:53:23 -0500 From: attuner Subject: Re: [rawlife] How to gain all the healthy weight that you want to gain At 10:09 AM 03/17/2002 -0700, jo wrote: >I do know that I don't miss running at all these days. hiya jo - been using beyond brawn principles. thank you! have gained 5 lb. muscle in last 4-5 weeks. do splits i.e. upper body workout with 4-6 core exercises: bench press, incline bench press, hammer strength bench press machine, row machine, lat pull down machine. each session has been with an increase of either 5-10 lbs. therefore gaining strength each session. reps of 20, two sets. sometimes i can't get 20 reps out of 2nd. set. rest 2-3 min. between sets. next day legs: squats, leg press, icarian squat machine, free motion squat machine, toe raises. need 4 days rest between weight workouts. only run 2-3x each week. noticing now since i cut back on previous (pre beyond brawn) every other day running routine, and sometimes not skipping any days running, but with no weight training, that my good aerobic training effect has suffered. now, i may skip 2-3 days not running, and there's definitely a noticeable decrease in my aerobic training effect. however, there's a nice tradeoff: when i do run, because of strength gains from weight workout, i can feel stronger in my legs, run farther up hills before i have to stop, or can run farther on the flats before i need to fartlek. the difference is in what my polar heart rate monitor shows me: i have to work harder now when i run =decrease in aerobic training effect. i bet if you now tried running yourself, even tho you don't miss it, you'd undoubtedly find your training effect severely diminished or nil. glad to report i also am up to dominant 7ths. after 5 guitar lessons. take good care and let's keep staying healthy! will look forward to at least a 12 week cycle (or longer) of mcrobert's principles and am anxious to check in with you about pavel tsatsouline's routine later on, but sounds like you are enjoying it currently. great! NEIL - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:23:37 -0500 From: attuner Subject: Re: [rawlife] Re:for Bob Avery/Marks request!/and Bobs At 04:13 PM 03/17/2002 -0500, you wrote: >muscle. I would need to exercise to build muscle. yes, and it wouldn't be a one session affair either. neil - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:22:18 -0500 From: attuner Subject: Re: [rawlife] support your local author At 03:44 PM 03/17/2002 -0500, you wrote: >but not now >i am sure i have exhausted the attentions spans >of even the governement agents gee, i guess getting unanticipated funds can give one genuine creative urges of all kinds including opening up a school for the literarily challenged like jamie who signed the guestbook but couldn't spell dumb. neil - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:19:24 -0800 From: "Hal R. Haley" Subject: Re: [rawlife] Re:for Bob Avery/Marks request!/and Bobs Bob, > Our genes are capable of working many miracles, but cooking introduces > randomization into the molecular structure of > food. It breaks food down and recombines the molecules in unpredictable > ways. I don't see how any change of genetic structure can cope with > something like that. At least in the relative short term; hundreds or thousands, maybe even tens of thousands of years, which amount to a blink of an eye in the evolution of living organisms. Perhaps over tens of millions of years, or at some time in the distant future, with the help of technology. > Any mechanism of evolution that I'm aware of requires that a new stressor > force be *consistently* present in the > environment, not some sort of random influence, in order for adaptation to > occur. I would agree and insert "in the long run". > One factor that is of great concern these days is how depleted our soils > have become, One only has to tend their own garden for a couple of seasons to see how depleted, and in such a short time, the soil becomes. > Dr. Klaper, a hygienic doctor who has studied vegans and raw fooders in his > practice, says that those who are vegan from the time of weaning seem to do > much better on a vegan diet than those who come to it later on as adults. Of course I have no data on this, but based on the youngsters I know of being raised as raw vegans, I would embrace this as fact. > Perhaps certain digestive and body building skills that are present in > childhood atrophy if the chemicals that they produce are readily available > in a flesh-based diet. Muscles atrophy; why not other tissues/functions? This leaves open the possibility that like muscles, those other tissues/functuions could be restored. Hal - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:04:31 -0800 From: "Mark Hovila" Subject: Re: [rawlife] Re:for Bob Avery/Marks request!/and Bobs Govinda, Thanks. Fascinating story. Mark - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 01:28:17 -0500 From: Bob Avery Subject: Re: [rawlife] Bob Avery Govinda, I agree with you about predestiny, and I don't like to think about it any more than you do. (:-) >Here's another quote of Leonardo DaVinci ....." From an early age I've >abjured the use of meat..The day will surely come, when men will look on the >murder of animals, as they now look on the murder of men". With the rape of Afghanistan in full swing right now, he turned out to be quite right, but not in the way he intended. Peace, Bob Avery ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 03:28:53 -0500 From: Bob Avery Subject: Re: [rawlife] How to gain all the healthy weight that you want togain Hal, >Ah, but it IS in our current state of technology. We've increased our standard of >living through that technology and specialization and division of labor to such a level >that necessity is no longer convention; spare time, some call it. You are so hyped on technology, aren't you? I'm told that it only take 4-5 hours/day for a "primitive" human to provide for his physical needs. All the rest of the time is play. In "advanced" societies, we work 8 or even 10 hrs/day and then spend our "leisure" time taling our cars to the repairs shop and fixing our other techogadgets when they break. This is progress? >We CAN live naturally and still have the means to enjoy the nourishments of the fruits >of technology Since technology is a major polluter of Planet Earth, I am not yet convinced. >Energy is INFINITE, and money is only a medium of exchange; problems arise ONLY when >coercion is introduced into the equation. It would be nice if money were only a medium of exchange, but it's not, not the way society is presently structured. It is a means of coersion, control, and oppression. Read "The Creature from Jeckyll Island." The IMF is in the midst of trying to destroy Argentina right now. Our turn is coming up soon. Central banking is a Ponzi scheme. Why do you think the US went from virtually no debt in 1913, when the Federal Reserve System came into being, to trillions of $ in debt today? Not to mention, we don't even have Constitutional money in the US any more (which is supposed to be gold and silver coins). >Perhaps over tens of millions of years, or at some time in >the distant future, with the help of technology. I highly doubt it, and you'd have sick humans during those 10s of millions of years it took to adapt even if you were right. >Muscles atrophy; why not other tissues/functions? This leaves open the >possibility that like muscles, those other tissues/functuions could be >restored Agreed, and fasting might be a key. Bob Avery ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 07:32:54 -0800 From: "Hal R. Haley" Subject: Re: [rawlife] How to gain all the healthy weight that you want togain Bob, > You are so hyped on technology, aren't you? Possibly to the same extent that you consider it evil incarnate. :-) > I'm told that it only take 4-5 hours/day for a "primitive" human to provide > for his physical needs. I think I could do it in that, at least living here in meteorological paradise. > All the rest of the time is play. If being alive and playing were the sum total of my goals on the planet, I suppose this would suffice. > In "advanced" societies, we work 8 or even 10 hrs/day and then spend our > "leisure" time taking our cars to the repairs shop and fixing our other > techogadgets when they break. This is progress? In my book. I don't relish reinstalling system software or the downtime from a transmission rebuild, but that computer lets me comminicate instantly with those I love and respect, and that car lets me be 130 miles away with my aging grandparents and mother inside of 2.5 hours. Net progress? You bet. > Since technology is a major polluter of Planet Earth, I am not yet > convinced. Technology doesn't pollute; it's the MISUSE of technology by boneheads, particularly bureaucrats (who control it in most cases, I'm loathe to say) and corporations (who are in bed with and controlled by the state). > It would be nice if money were only a medium of exchange, but it's not, not > the way society is presently structured. By definition, it's a medium of exchange. As I stated, problems only arise when coercion is added to the mix > It is a means of coersion, control, and oppression. I don't think we're too far off on this one. > Why do you think the US went from virtually no debt in 1913, when the > Federal Reserve System came into being, to trillions of $ in debt today? State coercion. It certainly didn't happen from private enterprise. > Not to mention, we don't even have Constitutional money in the US any more > (which is supposed to be gold and silver coins). This allows the the State to use fraud as well as force. Hal - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1904 01:45:06 +0000 From: forest Subject: [rawlife] the best things in life are free Hal R. Haley wrote: > On practical accounts I disagree, since it really feels good to get some strenuous > exercise, and be pumped; it's a power thing, I think. i agree it is good to be active, i just feel in order to be optimum and sustainable with the earth our action can be our natural livlihood.... > Ah, but it IS in our current state of technology. We've increased our standard of > living through that technology and specialization and division of labor to such a level > that necessity is no longer convention; spare time, some call it. it seems/feels to me it is spare time at the expense of others or a deteriorating environment....also when the shit hits the fan what good will money or living on spare time be, many like that will suffer due to the lack of knowledge and wisdom of nature and how to survive in it.... > We CAN live naturally and still have the means to enjoy the nourishments of the fruits > of technology well, i hope that is true someday, but so far not much evidence.....i do see some areas of technology refining and being less polluting but doesn't seem to be fast enough....it seems/feels to me that our computer brain and natuaral hygiene body and mind when refined and in balance is the ultimate technology....modern technology for thousands of years originates in male dominant warring strategies....war against earth and each other..... > > and our deteriorating environment is trying to tell us..... there is an upper class > > that has high paying jobs so the lower blue collar or third worlders class can be paid > > to do their "dirty work" so they can go to the gym to work out or whatever.... > > Bollocks and balderdash. Fallacy that one "class" does the dirty work of another. I've > scrubbed toilets and mopped floors, AND managed scores of workers and owned my own > business; never did I feel I was expending my thoughts and energy for the benefit of > anyone other than myself. so does the idea of working for someone else actually appeal to you?....i spose if money is your big thing in life it may suffice for you to work for others to get it, but as a naturalist i find it very unequal or unnatural to work for others....cooperation with others tho i can relate to ..... > > when in truth the "dirty work" is the most healthy karmically and naturally.... > > It sure seems to be less stressful, in my experience. also more intuitive, creative, self esteem enhancing, sustaining, left/right brain balancing, thought provoking, the list goes on and on me thinks/feels.....very important natural health factors..... > > if we live more simply and responsibly and self reliantly and stop exploiting each > > other for energy and money > > Energy is INFINITE, and money is only a medium of exchange; problems arise ONLY when > coercion is introduced into the equation. energy is only infinite to those who know how to use it wisely, i haven't met too many like that yet.....when we take land away from people and introduce money as a substitute for what land provides coercion is introduced....if we have land to caretake we do not need to depend on each other or money so much.....then when we get together with friends we can dance and sing instead of find ways to manipulate, co-depend, and control each other..... > You must enjoy these endeavors, or be using them for the physical exercise they provide, > because if you didn't, you could surely trade your time and expertise at something you > TRULY enjoyed for another's vastly more efficient production at these tasks. i see nature all around me and can not resist trying to learn how to live sustainably and in balance with it....i cannot think of something more enjoyable, can you?... unless we add consensus family bonding and tantric sex to the mix.... maybe someday.....more efficient production is not the goal, living sustainably and harmonieously with nature is the goal....i have noticed that doing a wide variety of homestead chores seems/feels much more enjoyable that doing one thing or specialty job most of the time....specialty jobs are more efficient perhaps(tho in the long run i doubt that), but not more fullfilling or enjoyable than the renaisance natural man/woman approach to life, and also take us away from our family and neighbors.....just as most of the natural evolution or our species involved eating raw foods, so also most of our evolution to date was without much technology.....if we can just learn to share land and eliminate war and offer all huWoMans equal rights as well as teach them to be equally responsible to the self, then i would be willing to live in the stone age in the tropics as was the case for thousands of years before technology came on the scene....under those conditions our own technological body, mind, and spirit will evolve to superhuWoMan status it seems/feels to me and will give us more free time if that is our goal.... aloha and peace.... - -- forest forest@talk-story.net http://www.lavazone2.com/forest - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ End of rawlife-digest V1 #926 ***************************** --- ******************* END OF POST ****************************** RAWLIFE-DIGEST - faq at http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html