From: owner-rawlife-digest@rawtimes.com (rawlife-digest) To: rawlife-digest@rawtimes.com Subject: rawlife-digest V1 #716 Reply-To: rawlife@rawtimes.com Sender: owner-rawlife-digest@rawtimes.com Errors-To: owner-rawlife-digest@rawtimes.com Precedence: bulk rawlife-digest Saturday, August 18 2001 Volume 01 : Number 716 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 12:16:35 EDT From: NAMASKA7@aol.com Subject: Re: [rawlife] COLONICS CAUSE CANCER OF THE COLON I would pay alot of these people like or no mine at all. Everyone knows that wheat grass is one of the best foods you could find. The ststement that it's posion is off the hook. Totally Nuts - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 12:20:40 -0400 From: "Charles Tyler" Subject: Re: [rawlife] Weight loss?????? Lou, Thanks for the response. I really appreciate it. >>> 08/16/01 08:31PM >>> Hi. When I started raw I was 220lbs, in 6 months I was down to 150lbs. I sort of stabilized there for a while and now I am gaining a pound here and there, but its muscle not fat. My waist line is getting smaller and I am gaining weight. I guess my point is that everything will even out. Your body has some serious house cleaning to do and the first step is to get rid of the useless fat. Good luck. Lou - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 20:26:46 +0100 From: "Nick Randhel" Subject: Re: [rawlife] Weight loss?????? Hi! My names Scott, i'm 30 from the UK and work as a businessman. My hobbies are mainly studying and martial arts (aikido). Mabye i can help by sharing some of my experience since being a raw foodist. I cannot remember when i first stared eating raw, i think mabaye 1 1/2 - 2 years now. I think it's just the matter of taking your time, theres no rush. I didn't really worry about losing weight. I was vegan for many years before i started eating raw, so mabye that helped me cause i never noticed a drastic drop in my weight. I would never go back to eating cooked food or omnivorisim never ever never. I think animals like the Elephant and Mountain Gorrila seem to put weight on by eating raw food. I found it easier by reading books on it, Nature's First Law by David Wolfe is a really good one, and a juicer machine is really good to but i didn't get one till later. I just eat whenever i feel like it, especially Water Melons in the morning and loads of fruit whenever throughout the day up till around 3pm then vegetables at night, i just eat whatever food i like best, whenever i want to. Hope i've helped a little with some of my experience but just ask if you want to know anything in particular. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Tyler" To: Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 2:04 PM Subject: [rawlife] Weight loss?????? > I need some answers. How much weight do you lose when first starting the diet? How long does it take before you gain some of it back? Will I gain some of it back just eating only 2 meals a day? I usually eat my first meal around 2:00 and the 2nd meal around 10:00pm. Please some body help me!!!!! > > > -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html > - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 20:55:00 +0100 From: "John Coleman" Subject: Re: [rawlife] COLONICS CAUSE CANCER OF THE COLON >Everyone knows that wheat grass is one of the best foods you could find. do they, doesn't "everyone" also know that meat is a good source of protein and also dairy a good source of calcium? ;) > The ststement that it's posion is off the hook. Totally Nuts actually my claims are supported by credible science - read some books on the digestive system of ruminants, and how their fermenting symbiotic bacteria detoxify the phytotoxins in grasses and leaves (just why does grass taste so foul?) John - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 21:27:36 -0400 From: "John Rabin" Subject: [rawlife] edible palm fruit dear Bob, I don't know if you can eat the shea nut. Africans would know, I know that Eithiopians would know. regards theresa Well Theresa if only one could have access to all of the fruit/nuts that come from palms. There's the babasu palm with an edible seed, buriti palm fruit with an edible flesh, coyure palm, euterpe palm fruit which is rich in lipids, proteins, calcium, iron, and phosphorus, california fan palm which has a sweet pulp that tastes like butterscotch, acquiere palm, guadalupe palm, jelly palm fruit which tastes like both apricots and a pineapple-banana mix, kokerit palm, peach palm, chilean wine palm, etc.......................... John - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:44:05 EDT From: NAMASKA7@aol.com Subject: Re: [rawlife] edible palm fruit Yes shea maybe eaten - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 22:58:31 +0200 From: kleinm@who.ch Subject: RE: [rawlife] edible palm fruit dear John, where shall I choose my next vacation to try all of those wonderful sounding palms? maybe we should have a rawlife rawtimes jamboree. thanks and all the very best theresa - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 17:20:48 -0400 From: "Sue J. Thomas" Subject: [rawlife] wheat and gluten I don't know about hot water in colonics, however: The wheat and gluten problem is a digestive problem called celiac disease, or sprue, in which the hairs in the intestine (villi) do not digest food correctly causing malabsorption of nutrients. Do not eat any soy or vinegar, and of course, no grains as these contain the irritating substances which cause the problem. I knew of someone who came from a family of bakers who got this problem, so it may be related to intensive eating of wheat/grains. Supposedly there is a genetic predisposition. Celiac can heal, but it takes a while. I do not know if a colonic could cause the problem, but perhaps a colonic therapist could answer this question. It does not seem likely to me except that perhaps a colonic which was too forceful might damage the villi (if that is at all possible). Any colon therapists here? Blessings to you, Sue I always had digestive problems since I was 15 years old. I am now 44. I did some water and juice fasts a couple of years ago and my health was never better. But I started getting cravings for potato chips and started gaining weight. I felt if I did the colonics it would get more old stuff out of my system and I wouldn't get the old cravings back. After my colonics I would stop by the health store and get some wheatgrasscocktail and after my 5th colonic my body started rejecting the juice it was very bitter in my mouth I could not drink it. I thought the girl made the juice cocktail wrong but after my last colonic the same thing happened.. I think the girl who did my colonics might have had the water too hot and burnt my intestines. I don't know but that is the only thing I can think of. I since have been told I have a gluten and wheat allergy. I cannot eat any bread, I used to live on tomato, avocado sandwiches. I am again substituting potato chips for my breads. If anyone can help me let me know. I was wondering if a long fast would cure a wheat/gluten allergy. Sharon - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 17:14:26 -0400 From: "Laurie" Subject: Re: [rawlife] Okinawa Diet - ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Coleman" To: Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 3:59 PM Subject: Re: [rawlife] Okinawa Diet > > It is impossible to draw any conclusions re: the amount of raw flesh > >eaten compared to the amount of cooked flesh eaten, because since ~70% of > >animal protein is collagen, which is indigestible, it passes through the > >body undigested. > Is it this that causes foul faecal smell in humans as it putrefies in the > colon? Whoops, let's reverse that 70% to 30%. Dunno. Probably a concert of un- and partially- digested pro's that make it that far. Excessive and cooked plant proteins produce foul odors too. Nuts/seeds, beans, legumes, ... > How come collagen is indigestable? It is used in connective tissue, such as tendons, cartilage, bone, blood vesicles, and hides. It is stronger than steel. "Boiling in water transforms collagen, which is stringy, insoluble and indigestible, into gelatin, a soluble mixture of polypeptides that is the basis of gelatin deserts." Lehninger, Principles of Biochemistry, p. 158. My assumption would be that since it is used in load-bearing structures, it is more highly cross-linked than considerably simpler plant proteins, which we are able to digest. Further, Lehninger claims: "The unusual amino acid composition of collagen, very rich in four amino acids but low in nearly all the others, in the basis for the relatively poor nutritional quality of gelatin as a food protein.", apparently believing the complementary AA hypothesis. > > These are not healthy people; they have a suicide rate 3-4 times > greater than other Canadians.> > apparantly their sea food is contaminated with industrial waste, and they > are not so well off now they have been touched by civilisation But, similarly "other Canadians" eat contaminated foods and have been touched considerably more. > People who live below -30 aren't likely to live so well as > the cold thickens the blood. "Thickens" the blood?? Environmental temperature affects the viscosity of blood? It wouldn't have anything to do with the necessity to eat tremendous amounts of fat and put on huge excesses of weight to try to counteract the cold? This just points out the ecological axiom that a species can thrive only in its natural ecological niche. Laurie _____ Get my diet articles: http://www.ecologos.org/articles.htm alt.food.vegan.science Scientifically credible info on veg*n diets. Bust SPAMMERS! http://spamcop.net/ uce@ftc.gov - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 17:22:53 -0400 From: "Laurie" Subject: Re: [rawlife] yoga, personal attacks - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Hovila" To: Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 8:33 PM Subject: [rawlife] yoga, personal attacks > I don't appreciate your vicious attack on Bob. I don't know who is right > about Brix, but you can make your point without resorting to infantile > name-calling. No such thing, just telling the truth and describing behavior. Truth can not be considered attacks. Laurie _____ Get my diet articles: http://www.ecologos.org/articles.htm alt.food.vegan.science Scientifically credible info on veg*n diets. Bust SPAMMERS! http://spamcop.net/ uce@ftc.gov - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 17:41:12 -0400 From: "Laurie" Subject: Re: [rawlife] Brix tricks and Avery's lies - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jo Yoshida" To: Sent: Friday, August 10, 2001 4:43 AM Subject: Re: [rawlife] Brix tricks and Avery's lies > Though it does perpetuate an ugly stereotype: that fruitarians are > unbalanced, hostile and close-minded. Why are you associating me with "fruitarians"?? I have never made such an assertion. >you could cite one definitive study that nails > fruitarianism as the optimum health-building diet for contemporary > man. I have not made such a claim. Laurie _____ Get my diet articles: http://www.ecologos.org/articles.htm alt.food.vegan.science Scientifically credible info on veg*n diets. Bust SPAMMERS! http://spamcop.net/ uce@ftc.gov - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 17:57:28 -0400 From: "Laurie" Subject: Re: [rawlife] Brix tricks and Avery's lies - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Hovila" To: Sent: Friday, August 10, 2001 7:02 PM Subject: Re: [rawlife] Brix tricks and Avery's lies > Instead of saying so and ticking off Bob > and half the other people on the list, wouldn't it be better to demolish him > with the force of your facts and logic? Then, instead of starting a flame > war and driving people to unsubscribe, we would actually all learn something > and be able to form our own conclusions. Bob has been demolishing himself for years; he continually makes totally absurd, unsupportable statements using science-like terminology, and when challenged, he presents absolutely nothing to support his claims, yet he throws in reams of additional nonsense as a diversionary tactic, as is being shown here. Then, learning nothing, he makes the same unsupportable claims elsewhere, and when challenged there, can not support his claims there either. We have been doing this for YEARS, as I am one of the few alternative diet fans that has a technical background sufficient enough to be able to discuss the science and reveal the wide-spread nutribabble for what it is. He makes outrageous claims, I challenge them, he fails to support them. The conclusion is obvious. Laurie _____ Get my diet articles: http://www.ecologos.org/articles.htm alt.food.vegan.science Scientifically credible info on veg*n diets. Bust SPAMMERS! http://spamcop.net/ uce@ftc.gov - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 18:49:28 -0400 From: "Laurie" Subject: Re: [rawlife] to Bob & Laurie - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2001 3:12 AM Subject: RE: [rawlife] to Bob & Laurie > and to Laurie: Bob's intentions are pure. hope you can see that. Thank you for your observation; however, if you were aware that Bob and I have a history stretching back several YEARS, wherein he makes outrageous, erroneous claims mis-using scientific terminology -- terminology he simply does not comprehend. When challenged repeatedly on the same issues over and over, he fails to respond to those challenges honestly. Worse,he continues to propagate the same unsupportable concepts at every opportunity, so at what point would you decide that the motives are less than pure? There are well-known conventions in polite academic debate; one of which is that when challenged, one -must- respond with facts and logic supporting the challenged concept, and failing that, one must politely -withdraw- the claim and -stop- making it. This is a simple and universal process whereby competing concepts are refined and corrected, and by which our understanding is raised to a higher level in a mutually-beneficial manner. This is the basis of "peer review" in scientific publication. This is the reason experiments are repeated hundreds of times all over the planet to assure the results are accurate and not some anomaly; like the "cold fusion" fiasco a few years back. This is a process whereby the intelligent person actively seeks out errors in their beliefs/education and intentionally eliminates them, such as to develop a deeper understanding. This process supports intellectual growth and refinement. People in a public forum, and especially one devoted to human diet, which attracts liars, charlatans, ad crackpots rivaling those attracted to religion, should be able to freely examine the -facts- and -logic- supporting ALL different points of view, and co-operatively examine the facts and logic, if any, in those differing opinions. I supply facts and logic, I correct errors of fact and logic; others, however, seem convinced that if they repeat the same nonsense enough times, then it magically becomes true. That is not science; that is religion. Unfortunately, the "educational" system in the US, and probably globally, has been intentionally undermined in the past 3-4 decades such that pictures of cheeseburgers, coke, and fries must be printed on the cash register buttons because current high school graduates can not count to 10 or make change. Given the intentional dumbing down of the masses, they are increasingly susceptible to believing the most outrageous lies that sound good. And, outrageous lies that sound good, like the famous Four Food Groups, have resulted directly in the decimation of public health and enormous, totally unnecessary, costs and human suffering. YES, it would be nice if we had a simple, inexpensive instrument that measured the quality of food and produced a single reading, BUT since food quality is a highly complex relationship between dozens, to hundreds, of chemicals: some known, some not, we simply have no way to quantify food quality. Thus, there would be no way to calibrate such an instrument IF one could be developed. Claiming that one simple physical property of a highly complex mixture is an accurate measure of "food quality" is simply a lie; and once corrected, assuming that it originally was an innocent misunderstanding, it becomes an intentional lie if repeated further. I can not believe that intentional lying springs from a "pure" motive; but, maybe I'm a little bit too old fashioned, and this is the standard of the emerging New Age? Laurie _____ Get my diet articles: http://www.ecologos.org/articles.htm alt.food.vegan.science Scientifically credible info on veg*n diets. Bust SPAMMERS! http://spamcop.net/ uce@ftc.gov - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 18:53:47 -0400 From: "Laurie" Subject: Re: [rawlife] Brix tricks and Avery's lies - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hal R. Haley" To: Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2001 12:51 PM Subject: Re: [rawlife] Brix tricks and Avery's lies > When I look at a thermometer, and it measures 98.6 degrees, this is not > the exact temperature of every organ, cell, compound, molecule and atom > in the body. It's a mean temperature of the surrounding tissue. I posit > this is a simple concept, which you CAN refute if you like. Would you claim that this single measurement accurately states the level of health in every organ and subsystem of the body?? That is what the Brix tricksters do claim. Laurie _____ Get my diet articles: http://www.ecologos.org/articles.htm alt.food.vegan.science Scientifically credible info on veg*n diets. Bust SPAMMERS! http://spamcop.net/ uce@ftc.gov - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 19:00:37 -0400 From: "Laurie" Subject: Re: [rawlife] Brix for Laurie - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hal R. Haley" To: Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2001 8:10 PM Subject: Re: [rawlife] Brix for Laurie > Laurie, > I'm told you are a male; I humbly beg pardon for assuming your gender, > and have no excuse since it happened once before. The credibility of my concepts is much more important than the polarity of my procreative plumbing. Laurie _____ Get my diet articles: http://www.ecologos.org/articles.htm alt.food.vegan.science Scientifically credible info on veg*n diets. Bust SPAMMERS! http://spamcop.net/ uce@ftc.gov - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 18:55:53 -0400 From: "John Rabin" Subject: Re: [rawlife] need advise on raw food for dogs Hello Niki. A former subscriber to the list and the lady who prepares the raw food meals for my cat, Burp, may be able to help you. Her name is Louise Larabie and you can write to her at llarabie@raw-connections.com. She also has a website at www.raw-connections.com. John - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 19:08:51 -0400 From: "Laurie" Subject: Re: [rawlife] Brix - ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Coleman" To: Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2001 3:59 AM Subject: Re: [rawlife] Brix > There is no parallel here. We know that bodies within an enclosed system > will reach thermal equalibrium. Never noticed that fingers and/or toes are colder than sublingual or core temp? There's significant variation between inner temp, surface temp, extremities, ... I believe that "bodies within an enclosed system" die; no energy/mass in or out. Laurie _____ Get my diet articles: http://www.ecologos.org/articles.htm alt.food.vegan.science Scientifically credible info on veg*n diets. Bust SPAMMERS! http://spamcop.net/ uce@ftc.gov - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 19:11:51 -0400 From: "John Rabin" Subject: [rawlife] Silver Leaf olives Yup....."Silver Leaf olives"........thems the ones I was thinking of. The Kalamata olives are not salty at all, and taste quite delicious. For those in the Toronto area you can buy them at a much better price by the case from a raw foods consultant Wayne Gendell at www.foreverhealthy.net. His address is 1 yorkville Ave. Suite #1. You can phone him toll free at 866-962-4400. Or you can e-mail him at info@foreverhealthy.net. John - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 19:40:49 -0400 From: "Laurie" Subject: Re: [rawlife] What's Behind the Hostility? - ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Coleman" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 3:42 PM Subject: Re: [rawlife] What's Behind the Hostility? > Called Loren Lockman. On 2 occassions we debated fasting vs enemas, and he > said that I had called him "stupid". I asked him kindly to stop misleading > people like this, and to show me where I had said this, and he could not do > it! Gee, what a surprise!! I got thrown off the rawimmoral list for challenging Loren's totally absurd and unsupported assertions, (enemas damage the bowels, colonics run at "20 pounds" pressure, the bowels will move when necessary on a water fast) by a similar process whereby I was falsely accused of personal attacks; these false accusations then being the 'reason' for banishment. It is quite common for the uneducated mind not to be able to differentiate between one's belief systems (which are in reality only the [modified] belief systems of others!!) and one's being; thus, constructive criticism of erroneous ideas is frequently (intentionally and conveniently) misinterpreted as a personal attack. In fact, the intellectually bankrupt often attempt to divert valid criticism of their false ideas by feigning personal attack, or launching one of their own, in a juvenile attempt to sidestep the real issue, which is that the ideas being propagated are false and unsupportable. > I had never called him or anyone on the list stupid, as this serves no > purpose to me at all. Worse, it would undermine your credibility, and destroy your self-respect. Laurie _____ Get my diet articles: http://www.ecologos.org/articles.htm alt.food.vegan.science Scientifically credible info on veg*n diets. Bust SPAMMERS! http://spamcop.net/ uce@ftc.gov - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 20:22:55 EDT From: NAMASKA7@aol.com Subject: Re: [rawlife] COLONICS CAUSE CANCER OF THE COLON I thought that the people that subcribe to rawtimes had the understanding about meats ,dairy and the vegan way of life ? Therefore I would be in the company of like minds.Not people that were still following the SAD diet and the belief system most of us grew up on. - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 20:27:46 EDT From: NAMASKA7@aol.com Subject: Re: [rawlife] Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 20:55:08 +0100 Wow Nick; I think that's Great you have a very little desire to eat. I on the other hand spend hours trying new raw receipes Lynda - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 20:51:42 EDT From: NAMASKA7@aol.com Subject: Re: [rawlife] Weight loss?????? Thank You Charles Tyler for the insightful information. I appreciate it. - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 20:56:29 EDT From: NAMASKA7@aol.com Subject: Re: [rawlife] need advise on raw food for dogs Just perhaps Raw is not for this dog? A friend of mine put her dog on raw meat and the dog did very well. But then she put the dog on a vegan diet and the dog began to die, So just consider the fact that some are different. Lynda - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 23:53:43 -0400 From: attuner Subject: Re: [rawlife] fatigue on raw diet At 06:56 PM 08/16/2001 -0400, you wrote: > >I agree with you Neil, I do in fact have a fast metabolism. When I was > >younger I could out-eat anyone and never gain a pound. > >Extensive fasting will slow it down. this is not an option for most people. impractical, especially if you choose to be active and involved in life (vs. eyes closed and resting seriously). besides, i am sure that once you break fast and go back to real life and possible choice within that reality to be athletic, metabolism will undoubtedly return to a cellular memory of "fast", like hey!, you is kickin' and tearin' it up dude! fast metabolism may be 'locked' into genes, genetic predisposition, homeopathic constitution, fight or flight, sympathetic dominance, etc. could be what god had in mind for you as an individual this time around, so who is to argue? neil - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 23:45:12 -0400 From: attuner Subject: Re: [rawlife] fatigue on raw diet At 06:29 PM 08/16/2001 -0400, you wrote: >people jealous because I could eat an entire chocolate cake and not gain an >ounce. What kinds of protein are you suggesting >eating......nuts/seeds......animal products? Awhile back I experimented >with raw eggs, and raw goat's milk and cheese to see if this would increase >my weight. It didn't. Maybe I should try sechami-suchi? yep, that's a sure sign aka hollow leg syndrome. i eat nuts, raw of course. my favorites are pistachios and macadamias. never eat dairy. i consider this a bad food choice, mucus forming and highly allergy producing. the only thing i might eat as a treat (i haven't had any for months tho) would be raw goat's milk cheese. otherwise, again a rare treat would be a ben and gerry's scoop of ice cream 1-2x/year (no bgh in theirs). and yes again, i am a pescotarian, the accurate way to describe someone who will eat fish. more precisely, a vegan pescotatian. my other raw protein is rice protein powder made by nutribiotic. i get this at vitamin shoppe. someone on this list turned me on to it 2+ years ago. neil - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 08:12:27 +0100 From: "John Coleman" Subject: Re: [rawlife] Brix > Never noticed that fingers and/or toes are colder than sublingual or >core temp? well okay, a living body is a complex of interconnected systems and it takes in energy as food - when you die the temperature will level out! but you will agree that the temperature variation across various body parts is not an analogy of the Brix/food quality scenario > I believe that "bodies within an enclosed system" die; no energy/mass in >or out. indeed! - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 08:13:37 +0100 From: "John Coleman" Subject: Re: [rawlife] need advise on raw food for dogs >raw food meals for my cat, Burp a weird cat name, I mean carnivores don't burp much if at all do they? LOL John - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 08:20:13 +0100 From: "John Coleman" Subject: Re: [rawlife] to Bob & Laurie > Claiming that one simple physical property of a highly complex mixture >is an accurate measure of "food quality" is simply a lie; and once >corrected, assuming that it originally was an innocent misunderstanding, it >becomes an intentional lie if repeated further. Well, you know I agree with what you say that Brix does not reflect nutritional quality - but perhaps there is a debate for no reason due to a misunderstanding. Perhaps the Brix clique are claiming that Brix is simply a crude reflection of the overall nutrient content of the food. But again there seems to be no evidence for this and a very dubious and potentially flawed logic. > I can not believe that intentional lying springs from a "pure" motive; >but, maybe I'm a little bit too old fashioned, and this is the standard of >the emerging New Age? This "New Age", with its laughable spiritual claims and false and unscientific beliefs just seems like the dark age to me. John - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 08:22:11 +0100 From: "John Coleman" Subject: Re: [rawlife] Brix tricks and Avery's lies there are never any _definitive_ studies/final conclusions in science or medicine anyway, because new discoveries always pop along some time... that's why it is all theory >you could cite one definitive study that nails > fruitarianism as the optimum health-building diet for contemporary > man. I have not made such a claim. Laurie - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 08:28:00 +0100 From: "John Coleman" Subject: Re: [rawlife] Okinawa Diet > Dunno. Probably a concert of un- and partially- digested pro's that >make it that far. this is how they no when primates eat meat, they see bits of connective tissues/skin in the dung - so in most species, meat is not fully and easily digested > "Thickens" the blood?? Environmental temperature affects the viscosity >of blood? So I have been told. > It wouldn't have anything to do with the necessity to eat tremendous >amounts of fat and put on huge excesses of weight to try to counteract the >cold? Dietatry fat affects the CNS and desensitises us to cold, as well help us put on insulation. > This just points out the ecological axiom that a species can thrive >only in its natural ecological niche. of course, and the Inuit do have atherosclerosis and strokes, just like other meat eaters John - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 08:31:12 +0100 From: "John Coleman" Subject: Re: [rawlife] Brix something as simple as a barometer can however predict the behaviour of a complex system (i.e. the weather) - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 00:39:31 -0700 From: "Mark Hovila" Subject: Re: [rawlife] yoga, personal attacks Laurie, > > I don't appreciate your vicious attack on Bob. I don't know who is right > > about Brix, but you can make your point without resorting to infantile > > name-calling. > No such thing, just telling the truth and describing behavior. Truth > can not be considered attacks. I consider that when you call someone a buffoon, lunatic, etc., you are attacking them. I am amazed that you cannot see this. Engaging in this sort of behavior only makes you look immature and insecure. If you want to be taken seriously, please don't do this. Mark - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 04:51:26 -0400 From: Bob Avery Subject: Re: [rawlife] need advise on raw food for dogs This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - ----__JNP_000_70cb.3698.2308 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Niki, >he said nothing that they ate last night even remotely resembled chicken >(eggs, honeydew, carrots, and kiwi). Of course fasting her for a few days would help, but if she's having trouble with that kind of food, you might be better off going to meat only, at least for awhile. It's more natural for the dog than the other food. She might always need more meat in her diet than the other 2 dogs. I also wonder about the advisability of feeding them chicken. It's about the most polluted meat in the grocery stores. Those birds are very ill and might be promoting disease in the dogs. >she hasn't wanted any food yet this morning, >which i am relieved about Sure, let her fast. Don't offer her any food. Let her come to you when she's ready. >or know of a vet in the northern new jersey area that would understand a raw >diet? The vets are liable to screw her up. I'd leave them out of it. Her body is just as self-healing as yours. Let her rest, and she will heal. >also we've noticed all the dogs have been shedding an incredible amount, we >took that as a sign that they need more fat, but that doesn't seem to be >helping. My guess is more protein, more meat and/or eggs. Are the eggs supermarket eggs or health food store free range eggs? Commercial eggs are a terrible food product. They come from those sick chickens I was just talking about. Lynda, >Just perhaps Raw is not for this dog? A friend of mine put her dog on raw >meat and the dog did very well. But then she put the dog on a vegan diet and >the dog began to die, So just consider the fact that some are different. Reread what you just wrote? How does this in any way suggest raw was not for that dog? It was the vegan diet that was not for that dog. How could any creature require cooked food in order to live? Charles, >Why do you say that its poison. [wheatgrass] You'll have to ask John Coleman. He said that, not me. I eat dried oatgrass powder myself. What I was dissing was whole grains. >I just started eating cous cous and I know its a grain, but do you see a problem with eating this? Well, couscous is a cooked food product, not a raw one. John C, >There's the babasu palm with an edible seed, buriti palm >fruit with an edible flesh, coyure palm, euterpe palm fruit which is rich in >lipids, proteins, calcium, iron, and phosphorus, california fan palm I'm impressed. How do you know all this stuff? Never see any of these at my corner grocery... Neil, >my other raw protein is rice protein >powder made by nutribiotic Why do you think this is raw? How do they separate the carbohydrate from the protein? Bob Avery (RWAvery@vegetarians.com) - ----__JNP_000_70cb.3698.2308 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Niki,
 
>he said nothing that they ate last night even remotely resembled=20 chicken
>(eggs, honeydew, carrots, and kiwi).  
 
Of course fasting her for a few days would help, but if she's having=20 trouble with that kind of food, you might be better off going to meat only,= at=20 least for awhile.  It's more natural for the dog than the other food.<= /DIV>
 
She might always need more meat in her diet than the other 2 dogs.&= nbsp; I=20 also wonder about the advisability of feeding them chicken.  It's = about the=20 most polluted meat in the grocery stores.  Those birds are very ill = and=20 might be promoting disease in the dogs.
 
>she hasn't wanted any food yet this morning,
>which i am=20 relieved about
 
Sure, let her fast.  Don't offer her any food.  Let her come= to=20 you when she's ready.
 
>or know of a vet in the northern new jersey area that would = understand=20 a raw
>diet?  
 
The vets are liable to screw her up.  I'd leave them out of it.
 
Her body is just as self-healing as yours.  Let her rest, and she= will=20 heal.
 
>also we've noticed all the dogs have been shedding an incredible=20 amount, we
>took that as a sign that they need more fat, but that = doesn't=20 seem to be
>helping.  
 
My guess is more protein, more meat and/or eggs.  Are the eggs=20 supermarket eggs or health food store free range eggs?  Commercial = eggs are=20 a terrible food product.  They come from those sick chickens I was = just=20 talking about.
 
Lynda,
 
>Just perhaps Raw is not for this dog? A friend of mine put her dog= on=20 raw
>meat and the dog did very well. But then she put the dog on a = vegan=20 diet and
>the dog began to die, So just consider the fact that some = are=20 different.
 
Reread what you just wrote?  How does this in any way suggest raw= was=20 not for that dog?  It was the vegan diet that was not for that dog.&= nbsp;=20
 
How could any creature require cooked food in order to live?
 
 
Charles,
 
>Why do you say that its poison. 
 
[wheatgrass] You'll have to ask John Coleman.  He said that, not= =20 me.  I eat dried oatgrass powder myself.  What I was dissing was = whole=20 grains.
 
>I just started eating cous cous and I know its a grain, but do you= see=20 a problem with eating this?
Well, couscous is a cooked food product, not a raw one. 
 
John C,
 
>There's the babasu palm with an edible seed, buriti palm
>= fruit=20 with an edible flesh, coyure palm, euterpe palm fruit which is rich=20 in
>lipids, proteins, calcium, iron, and phosphorus, california fan = palm=20
 
I'm impressed.  How do you know all this stuff?  Never see = any of=20 these at my corner grocery...
 
Neil,
 
>my other raw protein is rice protein
>powder made by=20 nutribiotic
 
Why do you think this is raw?  How do they separate the = carbohydrate=20 from the protein?
 
Bob Avery (RWAvery@vegetarians.com)
- ----__JNP_000_70cb.3698.2308-- ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - -- rawlife - http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html ------------------------------ End of rawlife-digest V1 #716 ***************************** --- ******************* END OF POST ****************************** RAWLIFE-DIGEST - faq at http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html