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rawlife-digest        Friday, January 28 2000        Volume 01 : Number 159




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 14:14:28 +0800
From: Greg Woolley <gregw@amitar.com.au>
Subject: Kale induced haemolytic anemia

Hello all,

here is some info and links to kale (and other brassica) induced
Haemolytic anaemia. I somehow lost my original paper on kale poisoning
in grazing animals. Originally found it at Medline using PubMed search.
The older papers often have "No abstract available" and it seems the
paper I originally came across has since 'lost' it's abstract. There are
numerous papers relating to kale induced hemolytic anemia, but
unfortunately most of these are old and their attached abstracts
have been ditched :(

I suggest reading this article first:-
http://www.listservice.net/wellpet/onions.htm as it explains in brief
how this particular type of haemolytic anemia occurs. Brassica
vegetables are also associated with depressed thyroid
hormone, but I haven't posted any info or links on that issue.

Brassicas seem to be a double edge sword, as are probably most food
plants. Brassicas are known to have potent anti-tumor/anti-cancer
compounds, but they also simultaneously contain cytotoxic, cancer
producing compounds. I am no expert, but have looked into this subect
quite vigorously. The health of the plant (ie, as Bob has been stressing
such as whether it has been grown on organic, mineral rich soil etc)
plus the amount ingested, plus the current state of health of the
individual who eats it, are probably all important factors as to whether
the net
effect of ingestion is beneficial or damaging. As most people here would
understand, moderation of intake of any particular plant is best
achieved by partaking from a diverse variety of plant foods. IE Probably
best not to eat too much of one particular plant species (the brassica
family included), but spread out and eat foods including green leafy
vegetables from as many different plant species as possible. 
- --------------------------------------------------

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=8410951&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b
J S Afr Vet Assoc 1993 Jun;64(2):96-100 

Cabbage poisoning in ruminants.

Taljaard TL

Department of Veterinary Physiology, Faculty of Veterinary Science,
Medical University of
Southern Africa, Medunsa. 

"A complaint of poor productivity was investigated in a herd of Jersey
cattle and a small flock of Dorper sheep that had been fed cabbage for 5
to 6 months per year, over a number of years. During that time a number
of lambs were lost as a result of swayback, some cows aborted, milk
production was down, and although the farmer was an experienced
inseminator, the conception rate in the Jerseys was low. After rectal
examination and consulting the records, 26% of the cows were found to
have been open for more than 150 d and 28% had been inseminated more
than 3 times. The body condition of the cows ranged from poor to
moderate, the hair coats were dull and some cows were anaemia. The young
lambs had visibly enlarged thyroids. Haematological investigations
revealed a typical Heinz body type haemolytic anaemic. In the cattle the
anaemia appeared to be macrocytic, hypochromic and associated with
thrombocytosis, while in the sheep it seemed to be normochromic and
slightly microcytic. Plasma copper concentrations were severely
depressed in all cases. Most thyroxine concentrations were within the
normal range, although some were on the low side. Analysis of cabbage
revealed a high sulphur content and marginally low copper and zinc
levels. The main factor in cabbage which is responsible for poor animal
performance, is the high sulphur content. High levels of this mineral
exert detrimental effects, in order of priority, by elevating s-methyl
cystine sulphoxide, diminishing the availability of copper and raising
the glucosinolate content of the plant".
- ---------------------------------------------- 

My Note: According to the book "Composition and Facts About Foods, by
Ford Heritage, Health
Research, California, 1971:- 

The sulfur content in mgs/per 100 grms of:- 

    Kale             - 8600 mgs
    Watercress       - 5390 mgs 
    Brussels Sprouts - 3530 mgs
    Common Cabbage   - 1710 mgs 
    Spinach          - 1245 mgs
    Celery           -  650 mgs 
    Carrot           -  445 mgs 
    Celery           -  650 mgs
    Turnip Greens    -  438 mgs 
    Watermelon       -  210 mgs
    Apple            -  201 mgs
    Grapes           -  150 mgs
    Banana           -  120 mgs 
    Beet             -   50 mgs
    Brown rice       -   10 mgs 
    White rice       -    3 mgs

As you can see, Kale and the other crucifer vegetables are very high in
sulfur content compared to most non-crucifer plant foods. I
personally have been very wary about ingesting such high concentrations
of sulfur as seen in kale. Sulfur is a very 'acidic' element and I have
often wondered if it is metabolized within the body into a form of
sulfuric acid (anyone know about this?) and it could well be a drain on
the alkaline minerals reserves such as calcium from the bones, as the
body
tries to neutralize the sulfur and take it out of the body. Have asked
around for info on this, but so far have received no answers at all.
Many health professionals do not even seem to know that kale is high in
sulfur content, let alone know the effects that this sulfur has on the
body! 
- ---------------------------------------------------------

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=1324206&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b
Free Radic Res Commun 1992;16(5):277-84 

The role of free radicals in brassica-induced anaemia of sheep: an ESR
spin trapping study.

McPhail DB, Sibbald AM

Macaulay Land Use Research Institute, Craigiebuckler, Aberdeen,
Scotland. 

The formation of reactive free radical species in sheep erythrocytes
challenged with
dimethyldisulphide, a brassica-derived haemolysin, has been investigated
by electron spin
resonance spectroscopy using the spin trap alpha-(4-pyridyl
1-oxide)-N-tert-butylnitrone. Erythrocytes exposed to this agent undergo
a burst of free radical activity as demonstrated by the appearance of a
spin adduct. The results suggest that haemolytic anaemia which can occur
in sheep grazing forage brassicas is a consequence of oxidative stress. 

PMID: 1324206, UI: 92371792 
- -----------------------------------------------

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=7797181&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b
Bioactive organosulfur phytochemicals in Brassica
oleracea vegetables--a 
- ---------------------------------------------

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=9066967&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b
Disease signs reported in south-eastern Australian
dairy cattle while grazing Brassica species.
- ---------------------------------------

http://www.dietsite.com/NutritionFacts/VitaminsMinerals/FatSolVit.html 
Excessive Intake and Toxicity Symptoms of Vitamin K 

    Hemolytic anemia (death of red blood cells) 
    Jaundice in infants 

Major Dietary Sources of Vitamin K 

    Green leafy vegetables such as turnip greens, kale, parsley, 
    broccoli, spinach, green cabbage 
    Wheat bran, wheat germ, strawberries, orange, legumes 
    Beef liver, cauliflower, soybean oil, tomato, egg yolk, milk, corn
    oil, molasses, yogurt, alfalfa

- --------------------------------------

This next link is a PubMed search for "Kale AND anemia". It comes up
with numerous articles on Kale induced Hemolytic Anemia, but
unfortunately the papers are old and the abstracts are not available.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?form=4&db=m&term=kale+anemia&dispmax=20&relentrezdate=No+Limit
- ----------------------------------------

By all this I am not saying that kale and other brassicas are deadly
poisonous and should not be eaten, but since these foods do have some
potent anti-nutritional factors, maybe it would be prudent to eat these
brassic vegetables in moderate quantities? Constant ingestion of high
amounts of dietary sulfur seems pretty risky to me. Think about it, 100
gms of kale gives you a whopping 8.6 GRAMS (not milligrams) of sulfur.
That is heaps!!! And if one were to eat 200, or 300 or more grams of
kale, then their intake of dietary sulfur would be 17.2, or 25.8 GRAMS+
of sulfur!!! 

My question is, how is the body going to neutralize all that acidic
sulfur? ANS:- It has to neutralize it with alkaline elements within the
body.
Seems like a huge strain on the body's alkaline reserve to me. I dearly
would like to know more about this, but despite my efforts to learn more
I simply have not been able to come across anyone or any written
info that can shine any more light on this. 

Greg

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Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 14:58:52 +0800
From: Greg Woolley <gregw@amitar.com.au>
Subject: Re: Skin soreness and photosensitivity

Vicky wrote:
> 
> Hi Greg,
> 
> I have been thinking about the skin sensitivity you are suffering from and it
> made me remember some side affects I experienced while taking Ruacutane (TM) as a
> teenager.  A Skin Specialist (???????) put me on it to clear up acne.  It came
> with a huge list of side affects and I experienced a lot of them.  Ruacutane is
> synthetic Vitamin A (Beta Carotene) in quite a large dose.  I am not sure how
> much - maybe you could research this.  BUT the main side affect I had was skin
> sensitivity.  I remeber my skin going red and very sensitive to sun/wind etc.  In
> photos I have of that period my skin looks red and sore.  It also made my eyes
> dry and sore.  I was warned not to get sunburnt or have much sun exposure because
> of the photosensitivity.  So seeing as though greens have large amounts of
> Vitamin A - Beta Carotene, it sounds like you have overdosed yourself.  Just like
> my body was when I was on the Ruacutane.  When I stopped taking the Ruacutane my
> skin sensitivity dissappeared (with the rest of the stupid side affects).  Cut
> the greens and carrot juice out of your diet for a little while and see what
> happens.  How much juice and greens are you actually eating/drinking???  

It varies, sometimes a lot sometimes not at all, but now even small
amounts causes problems. This maybe due to prior repeat exposure,
resulting in hyper-sensitization to phototoxic compounds :(

> Skin
> sensitivity is obviously a sign that your diet is too high in something and
> probally it is vit A.  When you do return to eating greens again reduce the
> quantity so it doesn't just return your body to an overdosed state.  Let me know
> what happens if you do decide to cut out greens for awhile.

Okay I will, thanks :)
> 
> Love Vicky

Hi Vicky,

thank you very much for your feedback on this subject. Yes, you may
indeed be correct about high doses of beta carotene being linked to
photosensitivity. Last night I was doing some searching on Buckwheat
induced photosensitivity whilst replying to an email from EnzymeRich and
I came across an interesting article which stated that the active
phototoxic substance in Buckwheat was a chlorophil pigment that could
accumulate in the skin and react with a certain frequency (590nm) of
light, causing photosensitivity. Also today doing some more research on
it, I see that "In ruminants one of the breakdown products of
chlorophyll [in their body] is phylloerythrin, a photodynamic agent
activated by sunlight". Thus through over-ingestion or liver damage the
phototoxic compound "phylloerythrin" can build up in grazing animals to
phototoxic levels. These seem very closely related to what you are
saying about high doses of beto-carotene causing photosensitivity.

Bob however seems to ingest quite a lot of greens without any adverse
reactions. Maybe he can volunteer more detail about his intake? So this
is relevent too. So it appears there may be two aspects to my problem.
One is the actual dose of phototoxic compounds in the food I ingest
(such as beta-carotene, chlorophyl, psoralens and other
phytophotosensitising compounds) and the other is my body's ability to
detoxify these phytophototoxic compounds. 

I am not sure exactly how much of my phototoxic reactions are due to
lowered body detox defence mechanisms in my body, or how much is due to
eating foods that my body is inherently not suited to, how much is due
to the dose of beta-carotene in the greens, or dose of chlorophyl in the
greens, or other pigments in the greens, or how much is due to
hypersensitivity now that I have repeatedly sensitized my body to
phototoxins! It seems the possible causes for my trouble may be one or
any combination of the above... phew!!! I knew it was complicated, but
now I am writing it down, it seems even more complex hahaha... Well, I
am now left wondering how to resolved it. It is relatively easy to cut
down on greens, but I am also trying to get over back injury and I want
to make sure my body is supplied with essential minerals, hmmmm. 

EnzymeRich's comment on buckwheat photosensitive reactions in people who
eat lots of buckwheat greens is interesting. For it seems that at least
I am not the only person in the world who gets phototoxic reactions from
eating a raw food diet. Suggesting that maybe the problem of
photosensitivity is not specifically due to any weakened body detox
mechanisms of my body, but may simply be due to too high an intake of
green foods? It is very hard to know which is what. But at least it is
helpful to know I am not the only person who suffers photosensitive
reactions. I think the picture is getting a little clearer now, so
thanks again for your reply :) 

Greg

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Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 14:59:12 +0800
From: Greg Woolley <gregw@amitar.com.au>
Subject: Re: Skin soreness and photosensitivity

EnzymeRich wrote:
> 
> Hi Greg,
> 
> The "tingles"-skin burning easily from sun exposure and a numbness in the
> hands accompanied by exaggerated pain if you bang your hand, etc seems to be
> common among most people who eat too many buckwheat greens. It was common
> among staff and guests at Ann Wigmore's retreat when I worked there. It
> seemed like you couldn't eat (chew) enough to cause it, but when you juiced
> it or put large amounts in the blender you exceeded your tolerance level and
> these strange symptoms appeared. I haven't experienced it or heard of it
> with any other greens, but I did get the tingles myself along with most
> others from buckwheat. Do you eat buckwheat greens?
> 
> EnzymeRich
> ----------

Hello EnzymeRich,

thanks for your reply. Ah-ha! Yes, bBuckwheat greens is one of the foods
that is known to cause photosensitivity. Let me see if I can find the
reference:- 

"Fagopyrum esculentum
Buckwheat

This species is widely cultivated especially in North America. The plant
is used for green fodder and provides good honey. The seeds are used to
make flour.

Fagopyrism is a form of primary photosensitivity which occurs in animals
that ingest the young flowers and the seeds. Pigments with an absorption
band about 590nm are responsible for photosensitisation (Watt and
Breyer-Brandwijk 1962, Kingsbury 1964). Fagopyrin and related
fluorescent chemicals are related to those of Hypericum (Bigger 1959).
Buckwheat has been reported to cause contact irritation of the skin
(Watt and Breyer-Brandwijk 1962, Meunscher 1951). Photosensitivity has
been reported to occur in humans who ingest buckwheat (Pammel 1911,
Bruce 1927, Sheard et al. 1928, Mathews 1937, Muenscher 1951, Behl et
al. 1966). Buckwheat can produce Type I hypersensitivity reactions
(Blumstein 1935). According to Blumstein (1935) and Blum (1941) most, if
not all, cases of buckwheat poisoning in man are not examples of
photosensitisation but are allergic reactions. Hjorth (1968) recorded
one positive patch test reaction to the plant and negative reactions in
five cases.

Using the method of Daniels (1965), the seeds of F. esculentum, both
with the husk on and dehusked, did not produce psoralen-type
phototoxicity for Candida albicans (Mitchell 1972, unpublished
observation). Fagopyrism has also been attributed to ingestion of
Polygonum (Mathews 1937)".
http://bodd.cf.ac.uk/BotDermFolder/BotDermP/POLYGO.html

Photosensitization Dermatitis (There are two basic types)

a) Photo-toxic Photosensitization Dermatitis-Phototoxicity is not very
common in humans whereas in domestic food animals it
is the most common cutaneous toxic response. Phototoxic photosensitivity
occurs when a photosensitizer is present in the
body and only after exposure to sunlight. The signs are sunburn like
reactions especially in non-pigmented areas. Swelling and
blistering (big head in sheep) may be severe enough to cause large
denuded areas which are susceptible to secondary
infection. In ruminants two types are seen, direct and indirect. Direct
photosensitization occurs when the chemical substance
is directly responsible for causing the reaction following activation by
sunlight. Examples of direct photosensitizers are
phenothiazines, TTC's, Klamath weed (Hypericum perforatum), which
contains hypericin; Smart weed; (Polygonum);
Buckwheat (Fogopyrum); Spring parsley (Cymopterus watsoni); and Bishops
weed (Ammi majus). 

Indirect phototoxic photosensitization in ruminants is always associated
with liver damage. In ruminants one of the breakdown
products of chlorophyll is phylloerythrin, a photodynamic agent
activated by sunlight. Usually the healthy liver detoxifies and
excretes absorbed phylloerythrin before it reaches the general
circulation because all the blood from the intestines passes
through the liver before it goes to the heart. If the liver is damaged
sufficiently, enough phylloerythrin may reach the general
circulation to cause photosensitization upon exposure to sunlight. The
ultraviolet rays in sunlight activate the phylloerythrin to a
product that causes damage to the skin. 

http://ace.orst.edu/info/extoxnet/newsletters/n31_82.htm

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Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 03:22:49 -0500
From: Bob Avery <rwavery@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Kale induced haemolytic anemia

Greg,

>The sulfur content in mgs/per 100 grms of:- 
>
>    Kale             - 8600 mgs
>    Watercress       - 5390 mgs 
>    Brussels Sprouts - 3530 mgs
>   Common Cabbage   - 1710 mgs 
>    Spinach          - 1245 mgs

Thank you, Greg.  You can insert Broccoli 1200 mgs right here.

>    Celery           -  650 mgs 
>    Carrot           -  445 mgs 
>    Celery           -  650 mgs
>    Turnip Greens    -  438 mgs 
>    Watermelon       -  210 mgs
>    Apple            -  201 mgs
>    Grapes           -  150 mgs
>    Banana           -  120 mgs 
>    Beet             -   50 mgs
>    Brown rice       -   10 mgs 
>    White rice       -    3 mgs

Where does lettuce come in?  What about seaweeds?

>here is some info and links to kale (and other brassica) induced
>Haemolytic anaemia.
>
>cystine sulphoxide, diminishing the availability of copper and raising
>the glucosinolate content of the plant".

Interesting.  A recent hair analysis showed my copper levels to be lower
than normal.  A blood test last spring showed RBC on the low side of
normal.  Too much broccoli?

>and it could well be a drain on the alkaline minerals reserves such as
calcium from 
>the bones, as the

My calcium levels are normal in the hair, but strangely lower than a year
ago, even though nearly every other beneficial mineral had increased. 
(Lithium also showed a slight decrease.)

>Many health professionals do not even seem to know that kale is high in
>sulfur content, let alone know the effects that this sulfur has on the
body! 

Not surprising -- most health professionals are really disease
professionals,  (:-(

>My question is, how is the body going to neutralize all that acidic
>sulfur? ANS:- It has to neutralize it with alkaline elements within the
>body.

Well, kale and all greens also contain large amounts of alkaline calcium,
magnesium, and other alkaline minerals.  In total, they have an alkaline
ash.

But you have definitely given me some food for thought -- only hours
after I just bought an 18/lb case of broccoli that was on sale at Whole
Foods Market!

Anyone else know anything about this?

Have you read up on alfalfa, Greg?  I hear it's got some bad news
canavanine.

>Bob however seems to ingest quite a lot of greens without any adverse
>reactions. Maybe he can volunteer more detail about his intake?

Well, I don't juice them, but eating 4 lbs or more/day is not unusual. 
Maybe I'm an accident waiting to happen?

Or maybe my biannual 2-weeks-or-so-each fasts are offering protection.

>I am also trying to get over back injury and I want
>to make sure my body is supplied with essential minerals, hmmmm. 

Most people's bodies have a large storehouse of essential minerals that
stand them in good stead when they fast.  Fasting is the fastest way to
heal just about anything.

Bob Avery (RWAvery@vegetarians.com)

________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 07:07:14 EST
From: Oysters476@aol.com
Subject: Re: food co-op

hi, i know there used to be the east 4th st co-op, sorry i don't have the 
number.  if you call the 6th st community center, they can tell you about 
their CSA, which i belonged to before i moved out of the city, and they can 
give you the number for 4th street (or 5th st ?!?!?).  good luck.  
212-677-1863

- -celia

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Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 22:30:25 +0800
From: Greg Woolley <gregw@amitar.com.au>
Subject: Re: Kale induced haemolytic anemia

Bob Avery wrote:
> 
> Greg,
> 
> >The sulfur content in mgs/per 100 grms of:-
> >
> >    Kale             - 8600 mgs
> >    Watercress       - 5390 mgs
> >    Brussels Sprouts - 3530 mgs
> >    Common Cabbage   - 1710 mgs
> >    Spinach          - 1245 mgs
> 
> Thank you, Greg.  You can insert Broccoli 1200 mgs right here.

> >    Celery           -  650 mgs
> >    Carrot           -  445 mgs
> >    Celery           -  650 mgs
> >    Turnip Greens    -  438 mgs
> >    Watermelon       -  210 mgs
> >    Apple            -  201 mgs
> >    Grapes           -  150 mgs
> >    Banana           -  120 mgs
> >    Beet             -   50 mgs
> >    Brown rice       -   10 mgs
> >    White rice       -    3 mgs
> 
> Where does lettuce come in?

       Lettuce Cos      -  690 mgs
       lettue Iceburg   -  687 mgs
       Lettuce Boston   -  580 mgs

> What about seaweeds?
    
       Kelp             -  930 mgs
       No other seaweeds listed
       
> >here is some info and links to kale (and other brassica) induced
> >Haemolytic anaemia.
> >
> >cystine sulphoxide, diminishing the availability of copper and raising
> >the glucosinolate content of the plant".
> 
> Interesting.  A recent hair analysis showed my copper levels to be lower
> than normal.  A blood test last spring showed RBC on the low side of
> normal.  Too much broccoli?

I agree, that is interesting. Yes, maybe the broccoli and kale is
involved in these low counts. Worth experimenting and reducing your
intake for while and have some more tests done.
 
> >and it could well be a drain on the alkaline minerals reserves such as
> calcium from
> >the bones, as the
> 
> My calcium levels are normal in the hair, but strangely lower than a year
> ago, even though nearly every other beneficial mineral had increased.

That is interesting, especially since it appears your intake of calcium
rich vegetable and green leaf is high. Don't know if you remember an
earlier posting of mine, but after eating mainly fruit diet for a few
years I ended up with osteopenia, ie very close to osteoporosis...
fractured 4 ribs for no good reason and my hip and lumbar spine bone
density was very low... scary!!! Supplemented my diet with calcium
citrate supplements and within a 2 year period my bone density has
increased dramatically... can't say for sure the exact reason for the
loss and the gain because I changed and experimented a lot with my diet
during those periods, but it showed me that if things aren't right in
the diet, then loss of bone density is a real possibility. It also
showed that calcium supplements do get metabolized and subsequently made
into bone.

Since your diet is high in calcium rich vegetables yet your hair calcium
level is lower, it maybe worth checking your bone density to be on the
safe side. From memory, when I had my Bone Densitometry Scans done, the
leaflet said that level of radiation for the scan, was less that what
you normally receive just being on this planet for 24 hours. Not 100%
sure on this figure, but worth checking it and if the radiation figure
is really that low, then having a Bone Densitometry Scan would do no
harm and could be reassuring to know what is going on at your skeletal
level.

> (Lithium also showed a slight decrease.)

> >Many health professionals do not even seem to know that kale is high in
> >sulfur content, let alone know the effects that this sulfur has on the
> body!
> 
> Not surprising -- most health professionals are really disease
> professionals,  (:-(
> 
> >My question is, how is the body going to neutralize all that acidic
> >sulfur? ANS:- It has to neutralize it with alkaline elements within the
> >body.
> 
> Well, kale and all greens also contain large amounts of alkaline calcium,
> magnesium, and other alkaline minerals.  In total, they have an alkaline
> ash.

Yes I have seen the figures too which show the net ash is alkaline. But
I still have my doubts on the effects of ingesting so much sulfur. Also
consider this, just say you eat 200 gms of kale a day. The amount of the
acidic sulfur ingested would be around 7.2 grams. Yet the amount of
alkaline calcium would only be 500 mgs and the amount of alkaline
potassium would only be 760 mgs and the amount of alkaline magnesium
would only be 74 mg, the amount of alkaline sodium would only be 75 and
the amount of alkaline iron would only be 2.7 mgs, giving a grand total
of 1.4117 grams of alkaline elements. So even after taking into account
all these alkaline elements in the kale, they still fall far short of
the whopping 7.2 GRAMS of acidic sulfur. So I wonder how the body is
going to balance and neutralize that huge amount of acidic sulfur and
take it safely out of the body. I am very wary of having so much sulfur
in my body.

> But you have definitely given me some food for thought -- only hours
> after I just bought an 18/lb case of broccoli that was on sale at Whole
> Foods Market!

Sorry about that lol, well I will be compassionate about this and
suggest you eat the broccoli first and then after maybe think about
changing your diet for while for comparison and observe the effects. 
> 
> Anyone else know anything about this?
> 
> Have you read up on alfalfa, Greg?  I hear it's got some bad news
> canavanine.

Yep I have actually, mainly searching for photosensitivity and guess
what? Alfalfa is well known to cause photosensitivity in grazing
animals. Also the phytoestrogens in alfalfa are strong enough, that if
alfalfa is grazed too much, female animals can lose their fertility or
have pregnancy problems. I have read a bit on canavanine but I forget. I
dont' think it is in the green matter, but is only in the bean and the
bean sprouts, but am not 100% sure on this.
> 
> >Bob however seems to ingest quite a lot of greens without any adverse
> >reactions. Maybe he can volunteer more detail about his intake?
> 
> Well, I don't juice them, but eating 4 lbs or more/day is not unusual.

Hmmm, well that amout sounds nice and healthy if your body is handling
it okay, I have been thinking to myself that you seem to be doing
marvelously well with your raw food diet. I guess the signs I look for
in my own body are redness of my skin, or redness on the soles of my
feet, or any sign of skin or tissue irritation. If your skin is peaceful
and feels nice to your sense of touch and if the sun feels pleasant and
soothing but not harsh on your skin, if the soles of your feet are
healthy fleshy color and not reddish and irritated looking, then I think
that this is a very positive indication. But your low blood cell count
does seem to fit in with the anemia effects of brassica toxicity, so the
broccoli and kale could possibly be responsible for this. 

> Maybe I'm an accident waiting to happen?

Hahaha, I am not in a position to judge whether you are an accident
waiting to happen or not, lol, but am interested to hear more feedback
from you if you decide toscrutinize your body some more and look for any
negative reactions and/or have some more tests done, including bone
densitometry scan if you decide to. 
 
> Or maybe my biannual 2-weeks-or-so-each fasts are offering protection.

Could well be, I know that the fasting I have done has impressed me
immensely. The power of fasting is quite an amazing thing. The body has
great ability to regenerate and repair iteself during fasting.
 
>I am also trying to get over back injury and I want
> >to make sure my body is supplied with essential minerals, hmmmm.
> 
> Most people's bodies have a large storehouse of essential minerals that
> stand them in good stead when they fast.  Fasting is the fastest way to
> heal just about anything.

Yep I agree, but unfortunately my back injury has not responded much at
all to fasting. Everything else in my body improves amazingly, but my
injury seems unaffected. Also the pain gets heaps worse during fasting
as my body becomes very sensitive. Sigh... But for detoxifying and for
improving liver and organ function and increasing sensitivity of sensory
organs and nervous system, fasting works quite dramatically. So yes I am
big fan of fasting too, but I only wish it would help my back. 

Greg

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Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 06:30:55 -0800
From: barbara Cohen <barbcohennot@home.com>
Subject: re:greenlife... juicing again

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hi jim:

you asked....

since we are all talking about the Power Green Juicer, I wanted to
ask you or any one else about that tension screw-in part in the very
front of the juicer where the pulp comes out.

I have two of them. One is a purple color and the other is white.
Unfortunately the instructions don't explain this feature.
I was curious to know which spring tension I need to use for
juicing fruits and veggies?  And what is the normal tension
that should be used to get the most and best juice? I hope I am
making some sense here with my questions.

that one purple 'screw-in' is for soft pulp type fruit - so that your
juicer does not back up all that pulp!!

it works for me...

barbara
irvine, CA


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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
<i></i>&nbsp;
<br>hi jim:
<p>you asked....
<p><i>since we are all talking about the Power Green Juicer, I wanted to</i>
<br><i>ask you or any one else about that tension screw-in part in the
very</i>
<br><i>front of the juicer where the pulp comes out.</i><i></i>
<p><i>I have two of them. One is a purple color and the other is white.</i>
<br><i>Unfortunately the instructions don't explain this feature.</i>
<br><i>I was curious to know which spring tension I need to use for</i>
<br><i>juicing fruits and veggies?&nbsp; And what is the normal tension</i>
<br><i>that should be used to get the most and best juice? I hope I am</i>
<br><i>making some sense here with my questions.</i><i></i>
<p>that one purple 'screw-in' is for soft pulp type fruit - so that your
juicer does not back up all that pulp!!
<p>it works for me...
<p>barbara
<br>irvine, CA
<br>&nbsp;</html>

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Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 22:54:22 +0800
From: Greg Woolley <gregw@amitar.com.au>
Subject: The pros and cons of brassica vegetables

All,

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=7797181&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b
"Food Chem Toxicol 1995 Jun;33(6):537-43 

Bioactive organosulfur phytochemicals in Brassica
oleracea vegetables--a review.

Stoewsand GS

Department of Food Science and Technology, New York State Agricultural
Experiment
Station, Cornell University, Geneva 14456, USA. 

Sulfur-containing phytochemicals of two different kinds are present in
all Brassica oleracea (Cruciferae) vegetables (cabbage, broccoli, etc.).
They are glucosinolates (previously called thioglucosides) and S-methyl
cysteine sulfoxide. These compounds, which are derived in plant tissue
by amino acid biosynthesis, show quite different toxicological effects
and appear to possess anticarcinogenic properties. Glucosinolates have
been extensively studied since the mid-nineteenth century. They are
present in plant foods besides Brassica vegetables with especially high
levels in a number of seed meals fed to livestock. About 100 different
kinds of glucosinolates are known to exist in the plant kingdom, but
only about 10 are present in Brassica. 

The first toxic effects of isothiocyanates and other hydrolytic products
from glucosinolates that were identified were goitre and a general
inhibition of iodine uptake by the thyroid. Numerous studies have
indicated that the hydrolytic products of at least three glucosinolates,
4-methyl-sulfinylbutyl (glucoraphanin), 2-phenylethyl (gluconasturtiin)
and 3-indolylmethyl (glucobrassicin), have anticarcinogenic activity.
Indole-3-carbinol, a metabolite of glucobrassicin, has shown inhibitory
effects in studies of human breast and ovarian cancers. 

Kale poisoning, or a severe haemolytic anaemia, was discovered in cattle
in Europe in the 1930s, but its link with the hydrolytic product of
S-methyl cysteine sulfoxide was only shown about 35 years later. 

S-methyl cysteine sulfoxide and its metabolite methyl methane
thiosulfinate were shown to inhibit chemically-induced genotoxicity in
mice. Thus, the cancer chemopreventive effects of Brassica vegetables
that have been shown in human and animal studies may be due to the
presence of both types of sulfur-containing phytochemicals (i.e. certain
glucosinolates and S-methyl cysteine sulfoxide)".

Greg

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Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:59:39 EST
From: NoGuile144@aol.com
Subject: Back pain

Hi Greg,
You have mentioned of having back problems.
I have learned from Charles Thomas - he has a health resort (Hot Springs in 
CA ?) where he goes into hydrotherapy, massage, drink lots of water. He has 
done marvelous thing with people that were suffering from skeleton problems, 
accidents. One man that had to sit in the bathtub all the time trying to 
survive -- he flew from Australia and in the month time no more pain of any 
kind. Regular doctors could not understand. 
Only thing Thomas does not do any juicing and is not 100% raw. 
In God's love, Peter

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Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 00:48:01 +0800
From: Greg Woolley <gregw@amitar.com.au>
Subject: Re: Back pain

NoGuile144@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Hi Greg,
> You have mentioned of having back problems.
> I have learned from Charles Thomas - he has a health resort (Hot Springs in
> CA ?) where he goes into hydrotherapy, massage, drink lots of water. He has
> done marvelous thing with people that were suffering from skeleton problems,
> accidents. One man that had to sit in the bathtub all the time trying to
> survive -- he flew from Australia and in the month time no more pain of any
> kind. Regular doctors could not understand.
> Only thing Thomas does not do any juicing and is not 100% raw.
> In God's love, Peter

Thanks Peter, but it is big financial risk to spend so much money (even
if I had it which I don't) for something that may or may not help.
Earlier on I went to England and then to India seeking help, but nothing
eventuated!

I think I'll have to say "pass" on that, but thanks anyway.

Greg

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Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 09:26:57 -0800
From: Brent <enoc@comnett.net>
Subject: Re: Kale induced haemolytic anemia

Bob,

In regards to Broccolli and Kale, I would stay away from the Hybrid Stuff.
The hybrid is very out of balance compared to the heirloom stuff.  Take care

Bob Avery wrote:

> Greg,
>
> >The sulfur content in mgs/per 100 grms of:-
> >
> >    Kale             - 8600 mgs
> >    Watercress       - 5390 mgs
> >    Brussels Sprouts - 3530 mgs
> >   Common Cabbage   - 1710 mgs
> >    Spinach          - 1245 mgs
>
> Thank you, Greg.  You can insert Broccoli 1200 mgs right here.
>
> >    Celery           -  650 mgs
> >    Carrot           -  445 mgs
> >    Celery           -  650 mgs
> >    Turnip Greens    -  438 mgs
> >    Watermelon       -  210 mgs
> >    Apple            -  201 mgs
> >    Grapes           -  150 mgs
> >    Banana           -  120 mgs
> >    Beet             -   50 mgs
> >    Brown rice       -   10 mgs
> >    White rice       -    3 mgs
>
> Where does lettuce come in?  What about seaweeds?
>
> >here is some info and links to kale (and other brassica) induced
> >Haemolytic anaemia.
> >
> >cystine sulphoxide, diminishing the availability of copper and raising
> >the glucosinolate content of the plant".
>
> Interesting.  A recent hair analysis showed my copper levels to be lower
> than normal.  A blood test last spring showed RBC on the low side of
> normal.  Too much broccoli?
>
> >and it could well be a drain on the alkaline minerals reserves such as
> calcium from
> >the bones, as the
>
> My calcium levels are normal in the hair, but strangely lower than a year
> ago, even though nearly every other beneficial mineral had increased.
> (Lithium also showed a slight decrease.)
>
> >Many health professionals do not even seem to know that kale is high in
> >sulfur content, let alone know the effects that this sulfur has on the
> body!
>
> Not surprising -- most health professionals are really disease
> professionals,  (:-(
>
> >My question is, how is the body going to neutralize all that acidic
> >sulfur? ANS:- It has to neutralize it with alkaline elements within the
> >body.
>
> Well, kale and all greens also contain large amounts of alkaline calcium,
> magnesium, and other alkaline minerals.  In total, they have an alkaline
> ash.
>
> But you have definitely given me some food for thought -- only hours
> after I just bought an 18/lb case of broccoli that was on sale at Whole
> Foods Market!
>
> Anyone else know anything about this?
>
> Have you read up on alfalfa, Greg?  I hear it's got some bad news
> canavanine.
>
> >Bob however seems to ingest quite a lot of greens without any adverse
> >reactions. Maybe he can volunteer more detail about his intake?
>
> Well, I don't juice them, but eating 4 lbs or more/day is not unusual.
> Maybe I'm an accident waiting to happen?
>
> Or maybe my biannual 2-weeks-or-so-each fasts are offering protection.
>
> >I am also trying to get over back injury and I want
> >to make sure my body is supplied with essential minerals, hmmmm.
>
> Most people's bodies have a large storehouse of essential minerals that
> stand them in good stead when they fast.  Fasting is the fastest way to
> heal just about anything.
>
> Bob Avery (RWAvery@vegetarians.com)
>
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